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March 29, 2005

Comments

Further examples of success with this model:

MS Windows... love it or hate it, there's simply more software and hardware available for it than competing products.

Apple iPod... Many stores seem to carry more 3rd party accessories for the ipod than all of it's competitors combined.

Honda Civic... Those that like to customize their car love the Civic. Why Civic? Because it has the most 3rd party accessory choices than other cars.

Mozilla... Lots of free plug-ins.

I think the basic point is that when making something, make sure your users can make it better - to their own taste.

I think you are dead wrong, and the source of the mistake is exacly your experience. I can not argue that eclipse has more coding features and plugins, but Netbeans is way easier. KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) is the rule and netbeans is the best thing yet.
As far as rich client goes, swing is comming back. And easy to use swing plataforms are also appearing (most open-source) Wait, you will see.

Competition is good!
Eclipse, NetBeans, IntelliJ and JDeveloper are probably here to stay for a while, and they force Visual Studio -as well as each other- to become better tools, to the benefits of every user...

Thanks for commenting on my blog :-P

From the blog entry :
Granted, I haven't analyzed NetBeans with this perspective for awhile now. What I do know is that writing new rich client apps with Eclipse is remarkably easy with all the Eclipse framework code and wiring. It's nice not to worry so much about improving framework and just focus on the important stuff.

Since you are willing to make assumptions with little knowledge of what NetBeans is - it is fair to correct you on this. You are making some wide-sweeping assumptions without knowing what NetBeans strengths are, or what it is. For example are you aware that NetBeans has two facets : IDE and platform ? You can go to NetBeans.org platform area and check that out. Let me show you what some Eclipse developers have said on this topic :

"If for nothing else besides the GUI builder, NetBeans is a
great addition to my working environment. When version 4.1
is released (non Beta) I will try to get some time to 'kick
the tires' of the web app support also."
from an Eclipse developer blog entry.

"The GUI Editor for NetBeans 4 is rock solid. The generated
code is very readable, and more importantly, protected from
developer hacking. How many times have you struggled with UI
issues due to call order, or incorrect method parameters."
from an Eclipse developer that switched.

Cheers
charles


One last point on this - a new study on GUI building by an Eclipse developer flat out says that NetBeans is "superior" in this area to Eclipse. I encourage you to read the following study :

Java GUI Builders

Cheers.
Charles

My response

Benjamin,

Swing is indeed coming back (performance and look-n-feel are no more issues). See Romain Guy's blog (http://www.jroller.com/page/gfx).

Having plugins to extend the Eclipse IDE is different from building apps (maybe non IDE-related) using RCP. A few examples of apps built on the Netbeans Platform: http://blogs.sun.com/alexismp/Weblog/netbeans_best_kept_secret

I know you're focusing on RCP, but the NetBeans _IDE_ approach is to have things work out-of-the-box with no Easter egg (plugin) hunting. NetBeans has profiling, EJB, Web Services, J2ME, GUI Builder, and more all built-in. I see many customer actually _buying_ an Eclipse Distro (and thus relying on small ISVs when they initially wanted to do Open Source) or build, maintain, support their own distro (pretty much like maintaining your own linux distro). That's a major difference between the Eclipse and the NetBeans approaches.

cheers,
-Alexis

There is no debate, Eclipse wins hands down. It is the best IDE around!

As an IDE user i don´t do much J2EE programming or GUI programming.

I love Eclipse, have been using it from Version 1 onward. I gave Netbeans a try (in regular intervals), but I don´t like it for it´s lack of source code editing features.

@Charles Ditzel:
That whole campaign about developers switching from Eclipse to Netbeans is (mostly) FUD. Some people are switching, but that´s both ways. I´m happy that no Eclipse evangelist has started a similar campaign. Look at the Java IDE market shares in
http://68.236.189.240/download/images/SDTimes117.pdf

maybe these campaign is really FUD, but at least it has the merit of putting in the spotlight the great work that has done on NetBeans from versions 3.* to 4.* The NetBeans community has been smart enough to rethink the whole product, even if pressed by the Eclipse adoption
At this time it's the turn of the Eclipse community to rethink the product and don't let the plugin flooding transform it into a usability nightmare...

All NB vs Eclipse (in favour of NB) talks are certainly FUD.
I have Eclipse 3.1M6 & NB 4.1 on gentoo-2004.3 with NPTL-ed rebuild glibc-2.3.5, jdk1.5.0_03. On my configurtion Eclipse eats less memory, SWT works without any slowness. Whereas NB 4.1 hangs occasionaly due to perhaps GC working actively on leaked memory. Somebody complained about slow SWT, slow GTK2 and so on on X.Y Ghz PCs, I don't have any slowness mentioned on my PIII 667 Mhz with 320mb of pc133. Second, I have tuned fontconfig to smooth only 16 , and italic fonts; I have tuned colors with 'Metal' GTK engine to my taste, can I use these all in NB? NO!
That's the reason for me to infer that all 'NB_is_much_better_than_eclipse...' is FUD.
Probably I'll like NB when JDK-6 'Mustang' with support for native widgets is ready.

On the long run Eclipse is dead ... (at least for java developement)

Netbeans just works a lot better and even faster ...

Has the best maven integration available, j2ee, j2me, profiler, jmx, .....

I am not t GUI dev, but the GUI people say that the matise designer in netbeans rocks !!!

Eclipse might have been better 2-3 years ago, but today it's a different story ...

Roman said:
>>All NB vs Eclipse (in favour of NB) talks are certainly FUD.
And all NB vs Eclipse (in favour of Eclipse) talks are maybe not FUD, are they?
If you want to be objective, say that all NB vs Eclipse talks, without any favour at all, are FUD.

I like NB for it all-in-one ready-to-go style, and I haven't seen Eclipse eating less memory or being faster when I've tried it.
Try NB 5, or better, try NB 5.5 preview release with newly integrated UML and tableEJB conversion features and then we can continue to talk about footprints and speed(maybe not for the preview release, but this is only for features show).

FYI for everyone, my company has developed a great product that is bridging the gap between these two great platforms - Matisse4MyEclipse, the first Swing UI to combine features of NetBeans and Eclipse for the Eclipse platform. This will be part of the MyEclipse 5.0 release, but is currently available for download. There's a free trial available and satisfaction is guaranteed! Licenses are only $29.95/yr! www.myeclipseide.com

Let us know what you think. We develop our products based on developer feedback!

-Jens

I've bean using both one is full of bugs one isn't Netbeans is the best. Eclipse is full of bugs.

I have to work with legacy code in ABAP and SNOBOL and it's a godsend to be able to use the same IDE for all three - Eclipse. Netbeans is only for Java, if you work purely with Java then consider yourself lucky, but that's rare.

Just for those people surfing by here in late 2007. Today Netbeans 6.0 vs Eclipse 3.3 is absolutely another story. Netbeans has improved so much in every aspect, that at the moment I would recommend Netbeans as IDE and Rich Client Platform. I also think, that it will get very hard for Eclipse in the future, as in my opinion it is evolving in a wrong direction. But we'll see.

Thanks for that Netbeans 6.0 comment. I'm downloading now.


Re: if (Table||Booth) pick_booth(); - So if Booth is false - you'd still pick_booth()? :P

well my comment is coming from another point of view, a MS developer who wanted to work back in Java.
I tried both Eclips and NetBeans, with Eclips i felt lost, but wiht NetBeans i felt like im still at home (refereing to how Vsiual Studio works)
so im voting for NetBeans if you are a microsoft developer jumping to Java world, it will be very easy for you to get started without wasting a really big big time in understanding how Eclips works.

This article seems very foolish in 2008, the author is probably embarrassed that he wrote it. I know I am am embarrassed for him, Eclips is such a joke compared to NetBeans 6.0.

Mohamed Faramawi is right.

NetBeans 6.0 and 6.5 should take the lead before the years end.
I just have one problem with NetBeans when trying to debug a remote c++ program with gdbserver...

I have almost forgot about the existence of eclipse ever since I got netbeans 6.0. Netbeans is developer's IDE. Eclipse is meant for commercial plugin vendors like Myeclipse, Zend studio etc.

Assalam-o-Allaikum,
I am a Java Enterprise Developer, I have tried many IDEs; right now both Eclipse 3.4 and NetBeans 6.5 are really tied. Both are great IDEs. Both allow you to extend them by creating plug-ins. NetBeans allows to develop programs for any version of Java(Micro, Standard and Enterprise edition). You can use NEtBeans to develop professional-enterprise-level programs, like SOA, and is backed by Sun. Whereas Eclipse allows you to move any other IDE; like: MyEclipse, WebSphere and Borland JBuilder.
\Thanks

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